Today I had a very good day interviewing a lot of Cisco engineers, But I also met the head of Cisco learning. Joseph is the head of the development of the CCNA, CCNP and CCIE certifications, So he's in charge of all that development. He decides as an example with his team, Which topics go into a CCNA certification, Which topics go into CCNP certification and which topics go into the CCIE certification.
I was really impressed to see how humble he was and how he was willing to share information with me. The good news is that he will continue with interviews with me, So he will continue giving us information. So that's really fantastic. I'm really glad that I came to Cisco live.
That's one of many reasons. That's that I think it's been good to be here to be able to meet him personally and set up contact with him so that I can continue finding out more information and bringing it to you. . So that's enough set I'll cut to the interview now . Everyone, It's David bumble coming tea from Cisco, Live in Barcelona, Very happy to introduce you to Yusef PI G.
If I pronounced there right so tell us a bit about yourself. David. So thank you all for listening and tuning in, As t would say. My name is Yusef, My G, I'm the certifications program manager. I manage the entire certification portfolio so from CCNA CCNP CCIE, All the design tracks, The D ADP CCD, The architect track. So I have the full portfolio management and I am technical.
So I have a 20 + Experian 20 years-plus in the industry. Most people know me, You follow me on Twitter or LinkedIn. My personal area of specialization is security, But I have been also in the enterprise architecture and a little bit on service provider as well. So my current role is management to manage the certification program, But it's a technical management because we are designing curriculums and exams and certification for all Cisco technologies.
I just want to emphasize that I mean do you want to raise that because foot to the camera you've got to CC II's. So in other words, You are in management, But you're extremely technical, And we were talking earlier. That's a really important thing: absolutely and and in my role it is kind of a requirement, Because, If I'm managing a technical certification program, I kind of need to understand technology, Not only the technology today, But where the technology is going. What is tomorrow? Because our programs need to reflect that for our customers, Because if you're going to take a an exam, A CCNA or CCIE, We kind of prepare you as a certified individual. We kind of prepare you for today and we strive to prepare you for tomorrow.
So I try to even in my current role I am still learning like. Why am I in cisco live I'm still taking? I took like yesterday a cloud class and a CI class. This learning just to understand what's happening. Where is cisco going with all this technology? So I can reflect that in the certification program to make sure that there is coverage of all those technologies right.
Sorry, I think it's from my point of you. It's really great to meet you because you know it's. It's wonderful, Firstly, To know that you're, Really technical and that's there's someone like you in charge of all the certifications, And it's also great what you said now that you learning yourself and seeing where things are going. So can you share anything about like your what you feel about the certification program, Where it's heading what you, What your thoughts are absolutely so first thing: first, I mean certification has been something that is been very critical for most people that have earned it and I Think one thing I would like to emphasize is what people confuse is: certification is a journey and when you say journey, It's not like how do you put it in simple terms that it's not like a milestone that you just achieve one thing and just , That You'Re done it's a journey and an mes exam is a way to assess your skills and abilities, But what you learn out of that whole experience or that whole engagement, You take it a long way with your career, So I feel that it is very important. People realize that this is not about an exam or our CCNA or CCA.
It's about the knowledge, The technology that you learn along the journey and it is very important. I was talking to David earlier offline that what are some of the key areas and how is the technology changing and what is the job role market changing? So we do a lot of analysis in our business to understand what are the expectation of hiring managers? How are t changing their expectations? So if you are a CCNA certified or CCIE certified? What are the expectations out of you today and what do we see as tomorrow? So one thing that clearly pops up is everybody's buzzword, Is software-defined automation and orchestration and all the technologies and and moving from CLI to API and programmability. And I want to emphasize this very critical and it's a tool to get the job done. So it's not like software automation will eliminate the need of certified individuals or replace them.
T. We will be more important in this software journey in this automation journey, Because you need to still understand the technology to be able to automate that it's the. How part whether I use it's a toolbox, Whether I use one tool or another tool, Is to get the end result.
So imagine if you are configuring a network, You have five thousand nodes: you're configuring routing protocol or OSPF or BGP. Instead of doing it CLI. I write a Python script or maybe I ever asked a P I or something, And I am deploying the configurations or something if I am troubleshooting something. Maybe I have a smart way instead of doing all manual correlation of sis logs and everything I have some smart script or something automated that can go into the network, Fetch things out and do correlation and tell me exactly where the problem is. We had a little interruption, But just continuing the the thought process we were talking about automation and how? How is it relevant to to this new feature? Job role, So I was trying to explain that the engineer job role is kind of changing.
The expectations are changing from the hiring managers and - and if not today, If you don't see that in your role, Trust me, You will see that in future. So what we are saying is that you need to enable yourself to prepare yourself for that future expectation. So it's kind of keeping the lights on for today in your network and then looking forward to how you evolve your network for tomorrow's expectation, So whether you are a CCNA or CCNP or CCIE.
There are certain new skills in areas of expertise that are in demand. Automation is one of them all. The software and programmability - and the other thing we talked about earlier, Was the the clarification between becoming a developer developer, Meaning the software engineer versus becoming a network programmer, Meaning you are using the toolbox of the software guy to do the network job you're not going to Write an application or for some mobile, App or you're not designing a new software platform. All you are doing is using the toolkits that t have in our business in our backyard, Which is networking, So that is a way to differentiate between the network engineers and the software engineers. So there is kind of a middle layer between the network in the software.
You'll learn automation to do your own job, Not that our own job is going to be replaced by the introduction of software. So that's a little bit of clarification, But this is like we were saying earlier that the market is changing, The expectations are changing and we try to change certification program. We evolve certification program to adapt to these changes and there are. There are times that there are changes are slow or fast depending on the track, So we were talking about security track earlier that when change security, Somebody asked me earlier, And I said well, CCI security was a we recently change in January last year, And and Now we are working on the other tracks because we have a large portfolio. We have to keep changing, I mean it's. The maintenance part of their certification and and maintenance is one thing and then evolving in into the future, Like I said so, Not just keeping the current technologies in mind, But also what are what are the technologies of tomorrow right? So those are some all of the things that are coming in our program, But you really need to today's objective was, To kind of you know, Tune in with David, Introduce each other and you will see more episodes and we will give you more details and more Information of how the program is changing and evolving so that you can kind of align your own learning path and what you want to do in your career, Because today you might be at a certain point.
You you may be a CCNA. You could be a CC & P and the question is: where do I go from here? Do I split and and and do something else, Do I go become a software developer or I start learning a Python? The answer is kind of somewhere in the middle. There is no golden recipe and that's another thing. This came to my mind, Most people when I'm coaching them, T ask me, And I say, Look, Do you want me to give you a golden recipe? There is nothing. What may have worked for me does not work for you, So you need to identify your own strengths and weaknesses. You need to know where, Where what what technologies do you like, Like I'll, Tell you when I started a little bit in my career, I I was very full.
I have a master's degree in software and I came from a software world and then I took network is my my career. Basically, So I I'm kind of the reverse guy of what people are doing now that the network are learning the software. So it's different and in trust me, These things change. It depends where you want to go in your career. You could be in our technology sense.
People start like myself. I wanted to learn collaboration. I I did a little bit because I started my career in in tact. So III did you know intact? We do rotation, So you go into the switching team or you go to the let's say: access team way back.
We had all the you know the Dali. So I tried a little bit and then it kind of didn't appeal me and then security or something as a passion. So I started learning security. So when you start your journey at the CCNA level, It's kind of getting your feet wet.
You understand the core architecture: core technology: what is the foundation of IP? What does IP mean for you? You know all the OSI stack layer, Two layer, Three understand the building blocks of the network, The nuts and bolts and then, As you, Progress in your career at the kind of professional level, What I say from zero to two years: you're kind of the CCNA guy, Because you've started your career, Maybe you're fresh out of college, Or maybe you have one or two years experience, And then you want to do your CCNA. Then, If you have two to five years, Experience you've kind of worked on multiple projects in different companies, Then you know. I want to park myself and what I call is my identity. So today everybody knows use of my identity is security. T always relate me.
A security guy not as a data center or collaboration, So you need to find your identity, But not from day one. That's the wrong thing the day one! You have to start something generic! That's what happens in academia. When you go to your degree program, You may enroll in a Bachelors of engineering, But your first semester. Your second semester is always like common subjects between whether you are doing mechanical or electrical or whatever. So, Even within the network paradigm, There is some common ground between all of us, Whether you are expert in this technology of that so start your journey.
There find your your place, Your identity and then work your way up at the ccnp and the CCIE level, And then you can always change it's not like it's like a swim lane and you just go straight and there is no deviation and you can't change yourself. Knowledge is knowledge. You will always keep that with you and, Like I said earlier, Technology is changing so fast that maybe what sometimes I feel like I am reena you know outdated, Because the stuff I did 20 years ago is not being used in the network today. But does it mean I am NOT technical anymore? If I could learn it once I can learn it again. So it's the methodologies that you need to focus on there how to learn the technologies? Yes, If I really just want to say thanks so much, I mean you're, The head of Cisco learning, And yet you so humble and you giving us all this advice so really appreciate it, And I think the advice that you've given the audience is, Is fantastic.
So, For those of you have asked a lot of questions about security. This is the gentleman that I came and asked those questions too, And this is the start, Hopefully of multiple calls. So after this we'll have some hangouts and discuss the future of certifications, Anything else you'd like to say please feel free. Absolutely so. First, I'm like David. For meeting .
It was first time so I said, Let's do an introduction. There will be multiple series. We will hook up remotely not after Cisco live Barcelona, And we will connect, Will give you more tips and advice and what to do? What not I mean just again, I mean I can't emphasize this enough.
You know this gentleman is a head of Cisco learning and yet he's willing to share all this information to all of us, And I think that speaks something to you know. Firstly, Technical people are willing to share, And secondly, It's just a culture. I see in Cisco all the years I've been in Cisco.
It's amazing people have always been willing to share stuff, It's a kind of a teamwork right. I mean it's what I call like not individual success, But a group success, Because technology is so passionate and we are all so close to it that we have, To kind of you know, Protect it in somewhere, So definitely stay tuned . .
So much for tuning in my twitter handle is my name, My first name and the last name. So I don't know if you can read that it's use of Bhaiji, So you can . So you can join me on Twitter but more importantly, On LinkedIn, Also because sometime on LinkedIn, I I publish a lot of links or articles or some sort of you know, Information, So LinkedIn and Twitter both combined.
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